Recently, I received a question regarding handling disappointment in a mentor. I’m really not certain I provided the correct answer. At most, it was an incomplete answer. I’d love to know your thoughts.
Success Coach and fellow speaker, Michelle Colon Johnson asked:
Bob, being in our industry we are surrounded by greatness. I had a client ask me today how to overcome someone disappointing them. They had a mentor make a promise (dealing with money) and not follow through. My advice was the advice that someone once gave me and it was to learn how to separate the behavior from the person and appreciate their greatness. They replied with, “HOW? How would you answer this Bob?
Michelle, regarding the specific situation you are referring to in your question, I don’t have enough information to be able to provide an opinion based on knowledge. When someone reneges on a financial promise (if that’s what happened) or any promise of substance, then I’m not sure there is a separation of the person’s behavior from their “greatness.” Their behavior says a lot about them and their alleged greatness. As T. Harv Eker says, “How you do anything is how you do everything.”
In other contexts, and in more minor situations, behavior can indeed be separated from qualities and wisdom a mentor possesses and from which one can learn and benefit. After all, we are all human (including mentors) and we all make mistakes (including mentors). However, by and large, dishonesty is a deal-breaker.
Again, though, I just don’t have enough information to form an intelligent conclusion.
I would, however, and based on your excellent question, Michelle, like to pose a question to our community:
What do you think? It seems that, usually, and depending upon the situation, we can separate a person’s mistakes from their greatness (i.e., their strengths). But is that always true? Is there a certain line that should not be crossed? Assuming we have enough information to know that this person did something we morally or ethically disagree with, do we “not judge” and continue to be their student? Or, do we (without negative attachment) let go of that relationship? Or, are there options I’m not considering?
Would love to know your thoughts.
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Hi Bob. This one got me thinking on a Monday morning!
I wonder if some of it depends on how good our relationship has been with the mentor and how robust they are prepared to be on our behalf. I reflect that, on occasion, some of my mentors have disappointed me in some way. However, it is my history that people in authority – beginning with my parents – will eventually disappoint. I have had healthy and healing conversations with mentors with whom I have been able to say “This thing you did disappointed me”, when they have been able to hold the courage and intimacy of such a conversation. I have equally not attempted such a conversation, when I haven’t trusted their ability to hold with grace what I’m saying to them.
I get the point that’s being made here about forgiveness. However, for me it’s a question of disengaging without judgment – and hence without the emotional charge that comes with it. I do believe that we take care of others by, first, taking care of ourselves and our first priority if we’ve been dealt with shabbily is to get ourselves back to feeling okay as quickly as we can. Our mentor can sort him or herself out from there.
I think, in general, what this comes down to is a violation of expectations. I would ask if these expectations are explicit or implicit. In this case, I would assume the latter, as social contract dictates we ought to be paid for services rendered (unless this falls under Shakespeare’s advice “neither a borrower nor a lender be,” which opens a different can of worms). The customer also has a set of beliefs about what they’ll receive and, if they’re not verbally agreed upon, can walk away with a bad taste in their mouth.
As an example, I once paid a mentor for some coaching services. I misunderstood what I was buying (and didn’t ask enough questions) and reaped less benefit than I would have if I’d paid to have a more intensive, personal program. He delivered what he was offering, yet I felt slighted. Though it seems inapplicable to the case at hand, I think we must evaluate whether our communication was complete in the first place before we get angry and have to forgive.
Bob (and Michele),
First, I agree that the specifics are necessary for a specific answer, but I thought I would submit a general thought here.
Central to this discussion is forgiveness. If we are able to forgive one’s actions, then it is possible for there to be true restoration. However, most times, forgiving someone we look up to is much harder than a subordinate because our expectations of the person are different.
I will add this, even if this person is not wanting restoration at this time, forgiving the mentor is still the correct step. As a result, the mentored will become the mentor.
Great question Michelle and great opinion Bob.
I actually had something similar happen with 2 mentors simultaneously (do I win a prize?) It’s quite upsetting, because I so looked up to them and I felt abandoned and deceived, and just plain hurt. One of the things which helped was telling myself “I don’t know the whole story”, which bought them some time to make it right. It also allowed me some time to consider some alternate explanations. In other words, I took some time to respond, rather than just react. emotionally
Like you said Bob, dishonesty is a deal-breaker and soon thereafter, I moved on to some new (and much improved) mentors. It was very sad; almost like a romantic break-up (OUCH!) Today, I am actually grateful for that unpleasant experience, because it opened up a new world of learning and growth, which I could have missed if my mentor hadn’t tried to (with all due respect) dupe me.
Good morning Bob! This is a thought provoking post which causes us to think about our beliefs and values. In the 19 plus years that I have been in alcohol recovery, I have had the opportunity to work with many men as a sponsor (mentor). During this time, I have known of a few sad situations where the sponsor has relapsed. What I counsel in theses situations is that we must separate the individual from the behavior. The mentor was not a bad person, they just have a terrible disease that has taken control of their life. As a mentor, it is my responsibility to demonstrate forgiveness, patience, and love for that individual. If I harbor resentment and anger towards the mentor and or their behavior, then I am not demonstrating what it means to be patient and tolerant. That does not mean that I continue to work with that person. It only means that I have chosen to forgive and then move on to help someone else in their life saving journey.
What a fabulous discussion Bob! I always use the metaphor of withdrawals and deposits when I think about forgiveness. Someone that is a respected mentor has obviously built up a lot of deposits. We trust them and, in some cases, revere them. But, as with anyone, when they disappoint us they make a withdrawal. When that withdrawal is an act of dishonesty it surely can deplete their entire bank account and, in some cases, take them into the “red.”
As Linda touched on I’d hold off passing ANY kind of judgement until I heard the whole story, there may be reasons beyond the mentors (or anybody else for that matter) control. I’m a forgiving person by nature, I’ve always felt that if I hold on to a grudge then I lose my ability to be effective in other areas.
Having said that, just because I forgive doesn’t mean I will give the person another chance to do the same thing to me again, it just depends on the severity of the infraction and the depth of the relationship before the “incident.” I know that doesn’t answer the question but I will try by saying this: forgiveness is internal and no amount of advice given will help ANYBODY overcome the emotion of being let down unless they are truly able to forgive, in other words you must dig deep and find a way to forgive on your own because true forgiveness comes from the heart. Don’t forgive just because we’re supposed to, forgive because you mean it.
Good morning Bob. Another great discussion. Forgiveness is always the right answer. Not always easy, but always right. We don’t forgive for the other; we forgive for us. When we carry the betrayal, it becomes our “load.” (In my experience that load is very heavy and steals our strength.)
Having said that, I want to reach behind the scene to the original promise. The mentor in this situation apparently made and broke a promise. I see that sometimes in mentoring relationships when mentors lose sight of the mentoring mission and try to “fix” and “solve.”
Mentoring is facilitating self discovery; it is equipping another for greater success. Sometimes I see mentors lose sight of the mission and assume responsibility for success. When that happens they put themselves in a precarious position of over promising.
This doesn’t have to concern money. It could be any commitment made in an attempt to “make everything okay.” When you really think about it, the “I want to fix everything” attempt can come from a place of pride and ego or heartfelt empathy and concern. Either way, it is a serious step for a mentor to take – it changes the mentoring relationship dramatically.
Mentoring can be deeply emotional. We can become very attached to the outcomes of the people we mentor; we can develop an incredible trust in the person mentoring us. We must manage the boundaries intentionally.
Dondi
If human mentors were perfect, would there be a need for God? I’ve set my auto default on ALWAYS focusing on the good, so I recently added a healthy rule: never treat anybody as if they are small, including me. (from book Aspire) If I am being treated small and degraded, I first try talking with the person, if it continues, I impose healthy boundaries. (This can include, but is not limited to, leaving the relationship, until and if the future brings change.)
A mentor is there to advise and guide you and if you feel they disappointed you then the first thing to do is look at your expectations. Were they realistic? Communicated clearly? Written out and detailed? Does the mentor even know that you have a problem with what he did or didn’t do? Secondly, did money have anything to do with why you chose him as a mentor? Is he a leader in his chosen field but dealing with insurmountable personal problems that has resulted in financial disaster? Is he worthy of your admiration, has valuable lessons that he can teach you, and is just in a temporary financial crisis? Sometimes those that aren’t having financial problems can’t understand those that do and how they have to sometimes disappoint and do things they normally wouldn’t do if it we weren’t in a recession and American’s weren’t facing financial problems they never faced before. If that is the situation, stand by him, and remember that as much as we learn from our mentors, they learn from us. Maybe you can mentor each other through this.
Great post Bob. Well, I would probably focus on the relationship between the mentor and the one being mentored. Have they known each other for a long time? Have they built a strong bond/understanding? I believe these questions are really important because they may, in turn, determine the direction or longevity of the relationship. A close relative/friend could do something to me that could be disappointing, but I would quickly forgive and move on. If it were someone that I knew on a surface level, I would probably dismiss them and the relationship, as a whole. Just food for thought. Keep up the terrific work!
I decided to work with a mentor when I first came online in 2006. We emailed back and forth for about a month before I signed up. As soon as he cashed my check for 5K he forgot my name and claimed my emails were no longer getting through to him. I decided to stick with him anyway, and read and listened to everything he had in his membership site. This was excellent training for me. I took what he had put a negative spin on and saw the positive side. I took responsibility for my own success, and now I am achieving my goals easily and with joy. This has also made me a better and more thoughtful mentor to my own students, I am sure.
Who would have known this would be such a hot topic?! I have learned so much just from reading the conversation that is happening here.
My suggestion to a client with that question would be this: No matter what we see, and how we feel we may never know the whole story. Without proper communication we may not be able to fully understand ‘their’ perspective. All hard feelings and mis-understandings are due to these different perspectives.
Each of us has so much going on! I keep that in mind when I run into a situation which I feel was handled unfairly or inappropriately. I stop and remind myself that I feel that way based on my perspective and I can’t judge from that place.
I would tell my client they have 2 choices. Decide this is a person who you don’t want in your life any longer because the relationship will not serve you in moving forward. Or, be okay with the fact that you don’t agree how a particular situation was handled and learn from it the best you can while continuing to build the relationship. (In the future plan for more clarity, better communication, written agreements etc..)
We can only control how WE behave and how we affect others. I look at these situations as an opportunity to check in with myself and to ask where in my life may I be hurting or offending someone? I ask myself, what can I learn from this to ensure I don’t create a similar experience for someone in my circle or community?
Sometimes good people mess up, forgive them and don’t judge them. If a person does something that is unforgivable, forgive them anyway and stay clear of that relationship in the future. Have faith that EVERYTHING that happens is part of the plan and part of your path. (I realize that may sound over simple or pollyanna, but this mindset has served me very well and I am sticking with it!)
Thank You Bob!!
xox
@HelenRappy
Great question and responses.
In my experience, most upset, frustration, hurt and any other range of unwanted emotion comes from one of two things: miscommunication or mismatch of expectations. Whenever I find myself feeling one of these emotions I gather my thoughts and ask “would this person have acted this way, said what they said, or done what they did had they known it would make me feel like this.” 99% of the time the answer is NO (if the answer is yes, perhaps take a look at those you are surrounding yourself with).
I then have a candid conversation with that individual, after I have my thoughts down, what outcome I’d like to see and am clear on my part of responsibility for what happened. I also make sure I approach the person when my emotions have settled a bit. One of my favorite quotes is “high emotion equals low intelligence.” Not where you want to find yourself especially if you are trying to win without intimidation. More often than not, the situation can be corrected.
If for some reason you still are left feeling dissatisfied then, there is a process Blair Singer teaches called the “failed goal process” that allows you to find the positives and the wins in the situation. Sometimes we believe the outcome we want from something is X when in reality our spirit really wants something else. This process allows you to discover what it was you really wanted and got from this experience so you can use it to be a contribution to the world and continue to achieve success. I’ve done this for several big failed goals and it opened my eyes to some incredible things that truly changed my life.
Bob and Michelle,
What a forthright discussion you have spawned here, and one that is very timely for me. It is interesting, I think, how many interpretations we have for a “mentor” and from the question and the responses I’ll take this as including consultants, coaches and other advisers.
I think this comes down to three basics – relationship, trust and forgiveness.
In any relationship we have expectations. When either party is attached to their expectations, but there is no formal outline of agreed upon expectations the relationship is at risk. I have found that many “informal mentors” as well as formal (paid, contracted) mentors are really seeking acolytes or followers and are very much attached to outcomes and to getting credit for those outcomes. This is seldom spelled out (I’m trying to imagine how one would word that in a contract – LOL) and so often causes disappointment on the part of the mentor and frustration on the part of the protege.
In this respect, the perfect example of an informal mentor is Pindar (from The Go-Giver.) He had NO attachment to Joe’s success, he was crystal clear of his expectations (that Joe apply each law on the same day he learned it and that he be honest if he failed in this expectation.) Pindar knew that if Joe applied the 5 Laws good things would happen – he didn’t keep score or have his heart set on WHAT good things would happen for him or for his protege. Formal mentors should spell out their expectations and commitments prior to entering a relationship.
Of course, any violation of expectations (reasonable or not, contractual or not) brings up issues of trust. Is the mentor qualified to BE a mentor (have they nullified their “greatness” status, if you will.) There are people whose INTENT I trust – but I wouldn’t trust them to mentor me because I do not trust them to hear me or respect me. There are others I trust to hear me and respect me, and I value their informal mentorship, but I wouldn’t enter into a contract with them because they over promise (with the BEST intentions) but cannot deliver. And there are still others I would trust as a paid mentor, but wouldn’t choose as inner circle friends. So the real question is WHAT are you trusting them with and what are you trusting them to do?
IF in this case a clear promise was made, the expectations upon which that promise was based were fulfilled (the person did what the mentor asked for the financial consideration) and the promise was not satisfied, then the third issue is that of forgiveness. To forgive means we have first placed blame. Is the blame solely on the mentor? Then there are the considerations of forgiveness of a contractual debt and forgiveness of the blame. Two very separate issues. It isn’t necessary to harbor ill will in order to pursue that which is rightfully due to you. As many of you have noted, to harbor ill will is literally to harbor an illness within you – that does very little damage to the other and a great deal of damage to you. Pursue the debt if it is a good business decision to do so, but release the blame and ill will.
How? As with any emotional barrier, releasing a feeling is easier said than done. And yet, language is a powerful aide. When we say “I will forgive” we’re still attaching blame. When we say “I’m go to let that go” we’re releasing the attachment to the emotion as well as to the person. It is also important to recognize the gifts that came with the problem (as Richard Bach says we choose our problems because we need their gifts.) Acknowledging the gifts doesn’t negate the price but, as Connie noted, it creates a balanced perspective.
Thanks again – it was good for me to have a forum to share some things that have been much on my mind.
Hi Bob, I get this question a lot too…
Here’s how I handle it.
First, I get the client to have a mindset shift about the unconscious energy we have around them. Many of us put our mentors on a pedestal (heck we are spending a ton of money on them they should have some kind of guru-like powers, right?) But actually, every person on this planet is infallible. We all make mistakes. Many experts have become excellent in a few areas but have a long way to go to be excellent in all areas. So we make mistakes too.
Second, I help them have confidence to ask for what they are not receiving, but were promised. Interestingly enough, at least 60% of the people who complain have never addressed the issue. And when approached most professionals will immediately step up and resolve it. Remember that every relationship has gaps between what we need and what we get. Strengthening our ability to communicate those gaps gracefully is important.
Third, and this seems to be the most important part, I teach them how to make better decisions about who and what they invest in for the future. Often disappointment stems from the rush to buy something to fill a void, rather than the deep connection we feel with a mentor or expert who can help us navigate through our new journey. We make lots of assumptions and rarely conduct any due-diligence to ensure they can deliver on their promise.
Thanks for sharing this subject…I know a lot of people are struggling with it right now. And it seems to intensify with the LEVEL of investment we’ve made.
Like the others, it is hard to answer without the specifics. I would add however, that I often find that what one remembers can be very different from another. It seems very obvious to us that the agreement was ‘clear’ in most cases, yet the other person remembers something very different.
Wow…what great responses from amazing people! Personally I think it all comes down to intent. Did the mentor intend for something to happen, but through unforeseeable circumstances it could not come to fruition. In that case I believe forgiveness is warranted. Also was the person who was the Mentee (is that a word?) put too much faith in the mentor and did not help his/her own circumstances. Like you said there is too much to us that is unknown so my opinion is speculation 🙂
Wow! What an out pour of responses. My phone has been ringing all day long to come look at Bob’s Blog! I have even been tweeted! lol I am running to my last set of appointments for the day but wanted to take the time to thank everyone for their feedback and I will add a little more of the situation when I return! Many Blessings to everyone and Thank You Bob for your continued friendship and professionalism. Much Love! ~Michelle
I am sooooo enjoying every single response. Christie, how does one know intent? I was in a sitiuation where a “very wounded” young lady was attacking me with a vengence. I excused her as, I knew it wasnt about me, but about her own issues. (bless her heart) Well a year later she came and asked me to forgive her. She continued, “I knew exactly what I was doing. I planned how I would get you hurt.” (the result of her planning was major, but I never knew it was on purpose….shocker to know that people hurt people on purpose.) I walked away scratching my head…My question is this, How do you know when it’s just that I was in her “splash zone”, or when it is with ill intent?
Dang, as soon as I hit “submit” I heard the answer in my heart: Would it matter if I knew if it was intentional, or splash zone ? No, I would still have handled it with mercy.
Hi Gang, just a quick note from Bob. Although I didn’t respond to individual posts like I usually do, please know that I read every one of them and, as many of you mentioned within your comments, learned a TON from them. Thank you to all of you who took the time to share your thoughts, knowledge, opinions and wisdom. Really, the reason I didn’t add my comments is because I really wanted this to be more of a forum today where we could all learn from each other…and I had already shared my thoughts. 🙂 So, again, thank you, and please know how much I appreciate you!
I think a lot of mentors once they reach a certain level of success forget how important it is to continue being “Others Focused”. When they do this it often leaves the Mentoree confused and questioning if all they learned was authentic or just a ploy to help the mentor climb the success ladder. So when I said separate the behaviour from the greatness I meant that I feel the knowledge they gained in their experience was useful on their journey. Be grateful for the growth and don’t focus on the mentors bad behavior. Get a new mentor and one that is authentic and practices as they preach and teach.
With out getting into personal details this was a situation where a former mentor made promises they did not keep. They offered the student compensation for information and when the student inquired the calls were not returned and when the situation was finally addressed the student was made to feel like they shouldn’t have helped if they expected compensation. The students fault in this was not getting agreements in writing. I did ask them to look at the BIG picture and to see how their relationship made them grow and to then turn the disappointment over to a higher power. They were also vague with names and specifics so I gave the advice I could give with the information I was given.
Thanks Bob & Michelle – and all I’m learning from – for your discussion.
This topic of violated expectations — and how to let go and forgive and move forward – is central to resiliency and happiness. In the context of a mentor or any relationship founded on deep respect and trust, it cuts all the more deeply. Yet, getting mired down in the hurt (I say from both research and personal experience) is an enormous energy drain.
The answers – and finding peace – must come from within. Emotionally releasing and letting the experience – and sometimes the person – go.
I have a blog cued up for tomorrow that’s been marinating since last year about letting coaches/others in your life go if this is what you need to move forward. One thing I didn’t share in that blog was a new response I tried when a coach fell on the far end of the “over promise under deliver” category for me. When letting go emotionally, I also reframed the money I paid as a gift. It was no longer a bad business decision or a service I paid for but didn’t get. It became pure gift. Some may call this semantics or a mind game, but it did help me move forward more easily.
Like most here, I lean toward believing that I don’t fully know where someone else is coming from and to trust and forgive. Amy – you’ve inspired me to keep growing in this area with your forgiveness of someone who came right out and said she tried to hurt you. I think (and hope) that this is an extreme and rare instance and that most mentoring relationships that run into trouble are a result of poor communication and mismatched expectations – not bad intent.
Hi Amy, I just wanted to drop a quick note to answer your question. I know you can never be 100% sure of a person’s intent but I think if it is someone you know well enough you probably have a good clue as to a good intent or a malicious intent. Is that mentor genuinely apologizing for what he/she did, are they trying to make amends or are they blowing you off and avoiding you? I would think it would be hard not to forgive in either scenario, with the malicious intent warranting you cutting off all connections. I hope that made sense 🙂
Never idealize others. They will never live up to your expectations ~ Leo Buscaglia
Powerful question and it certainly has stuck a number of chord with many.
We are in a time where many people are actively looking for a mentor to lead them
out of their ‘darkness’. As Dixie mentioned, there are many unqualified mentors who
present themselves as one thing, but rarely completely walk their own talk.
As coaches, mentors, speakers we have an additional responsibility to be better than
what we have been in the past, because so many eyes are watching almost everything
we do, especially the doubters. I have seen so many mentors/teachers get caught up in the idolization of their students, that they rarely took steps to remind the students not to put them on a pesticidal. Perhaps if we all were more secure in knowing that people will still admire us in spite of our short comings, this question may never have come up. But that pursuit of perfection is elusive and hard to accept our own weaknesses and expect that anyone else will.
The hard part as a protege is to be ever observant of the mentor we choose and not blindly
follow every word. Rather try them on and see what fits and discard the rest. Get insights from other mentors and friends to weigh what you heard.
From my own disappointments in mentors, I did not fully understand my role and was searching for someone to lead me. In that blindness I choose not to see the some of the things that caused my discomfort and allowed them to be human and to take control of my decisions.
Always continue to strive to be Better than you were before and accept that others are working on exactly the same issue
What a great conversation. Lots of food for thought. As I read through the post & comments I was reminded of something that occasionally comes up when I’m talking to folks — that being the topic of dealing with past/lost dating/marriage relationships — in particular where someone brings up something along the lines of, “what a waste of time that relationship was, look at all that time I spent and look where it got me. No where.” First, in the spirit of authenticity I will fully confess, that at 37 years old (the age I am as I’m writing this ;-)), being single, and having never been married yet, to say that I’m an amateur when it comes to dating/marriage, and things of the heart would be putting it mildly (which I might add is the reason I am the first to relay this to my clients, when they seek such advice from me, but for some reason they still want my opinion on this topic — go figure…lol 🙂 That said, when it comes to developing more general personal & professional relationships I feel confident in saying I’m pretty good with those. So now that I got that disclaimer out of the way…
The inevitable question I always find myself asking back to the person who seems to think their previous relationship was a “complete waste of time” is, wasn’t there some good which came from it? Weren’t there some moments – as fleeting as they may appear now, if even only at different times in the given relationship which were good? In other words, I think it’s worth looking just beyond the “end result” and at least considering the different parts as a whole. I guess I would say the comparison in the example I shared would be that while there may have been a genuine disappointment, being able to look at the experience/relationship as a whole might very well be help to lesson the pain that’s currently being felt. I’ll fully concede that’s easier said then done… Though it can be done 🙂
As a final thought… we can read a book that has a terrible ending, and when asked by others what we thought of it, say without hesitation, “it was a great book, but the ending stunk, great book though!”. We can do the same with a movie. We watch a TV series, and from week to week enjoy one episode more then the next or one before… In those three examples we could separate the whole from it’s parts. When I think about it like that it always make me think 🙂
-Josh 🙂
I thought mentor-ship did not bring money into the equation.
A mentor is an individual, usually older, always more experienced,
who helps and guides another individual’s development. This
guidance is not done for personal gain. (About.com)
Why people choose to mentor others?
Who becomes a mentor? Why do they do it? The answers are
as varied as the people involved. Some of us were lucky enough
to have had a mentor and want to repay that. Others just want
to help out, be a positive influence, or give something to their community.
What ever your reason for being a mentor, you will find it a special experience. Nothing can quite match the self satisfaction you get from sharing your experience to help others.
“Mentoring is to support and encourage people to manage their own
learning in order that they may maximise their potential, develop
their skills, improve their performance and become the person
they want to be.” Eric Parsloe
When money is involved you are actually doing coaching.